What is the ultimate explanation for the universe?

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What is the ultimate explanation for the universe?

Postby Brandon Norgaard on Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:10 pm

Why does the universe exist as it does and not different? Certainly one can point to the laws of nature, but what is the explanation for the laws of nature being exactly as they are and not different?
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Re: What is the ultimate explanation for the universe?

Postby technicolor on Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:51 pm

Finite is not universal. And... universal is not finite. What can be learned from this simple, but true concept? The Universe is one eternal round. There is no beginning and there is no end. The first form of life must have been related to the last form of life; that is man is what God once was , and God is what Man may become . There is good argument for this concept because there is only one known intelligence in the universe of man that can conceive of God; and that is Man. Why is this? The debate is only among men. There must be a reason for God creating the Universe (creating meaning 0rganizing). All things are made of matter; whether solid or refined. Where does matter come from? It always existed. Where does intelligence come from? It always existed. Who organized the first intelligences? There was no first and there is no last. If we were to see into the expanses of space and were able to see a glimpse of eternity, we would realize that at that point we would be able to see the Heavens stretched out still. That is the nature of God. That is the nature of his child; Man.
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Re: What is the ultimate explanation for the universe?

Postby marco on Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:09 pm

In the beginning there was nothing, no time no space. Then a small movement of time forward happened. Followed by a small movement backward in time. This initial vibration of time continuted, but from a point of view of the present which was now moving forward in time, multiple vibrations appeared, from the past. The effect multiplied geometrically (big bang). Now if we look deeply enough into matter we find that it is composed of vibrations, but of what substance. No substance at all, just vibrations of time/space itself, very small vibrations of time of very small areas of space. Some of these vibrations have a tendency to retard the passage of time (quarks), some tend to speed up the passage of time (electrons or light). We see evidence of this, near a large mass time is slightly retarded. In terms of knowledge, it has increased from the original movement forward in time (I am) to now when everything in the entire universe is functioning as a large computer, and we are part of it.
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Re: What is the ultimate explanation for the universe?

Postby Matt on Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:31 pm

Is this question inferring that we or someone can? What do you mean by 'explanation', as in "how it came about"? How do you explain something that has always existed? Or is there a beginning to the universe, in which case, can something come from nothing? It's a loaded question. Interested in hearing more perspectives. Another question might be, is there meaning to the universe? I find the word "universe" interesting, because one must define it first before we throw it out into public debate. If the universe means all of space and time, basically everything, then the ultimate explanation of "everything" is, wow, quite a question. Because who here really understands everything?

"Technicolor", I 'tried' to follow your train of thought, but couldn't quite grasp it. In the end I hear you saying there is no explanation, it just is. You do say that the universe is eternal though, and God and man are predecessors of each other. So are you saying that man is God? or that man is going to become God? The "earth" did not always exist, so what happened there, you seem to mention that God created the universe. So the universe is NOT eternal then? But you also say the universe is an eternal round. What is the relationship between God and the universe in your understanding? And are you saying, "meaningless, it just is"? Just trying to understand what you're talking about.
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Re: What is the ultimate explanation for the universe?

Postby Matt on Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:48 pm

marco wrote:In the beginning there was nothing, no time no space. Then a small movement of time forward happened. Followed by a small movement backward in time... In terms of knowledge, it has increased from the original movement forward in time (I am) to now when everything in the entire universe is functioning as a large computer, and we are part of it.


Interesting, so you are saying that something (i.e. mass and energy, time, etc...) can come out of absolutely zilch, nothing, absolute nothingness? Is there evidence for this somewhere?

We are part of a mega-computer? I'm uncomfortable with the analogy of a computer which is a creation of man, and which is all about our human need to accomplish tasks in human ways (i.e.: 2 hands with fingers, limited understanding of how to harness energy and power, limited to binary machine code languages, and the computer is something we are constantly refining (it doesn't refine itself on its own)). This would mean, if we were in a big computer like type of thing, that we operate within a big designed world with a meaning that is particular to a great mind, greater then our own. Is that what you're saying? or is this just an abstract hypothesis, concept?
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Re: What is the ultimate explanation for the universe?

Postby Brandon Norgaard on Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:04 pm

First, thank you marco for your post. I do agree with your physicalist explanation to some extent. The problem is, why did this happen? If there are laws of nature that are responsible for the big bang happening as it did, what is the explanation for the laws? The only reasonable answer that is indeed an explanation is that all things began with a higher power that could have acted otherwise but chose to act to create the universe as we know it. This higher power itself does not have an explanation. The reason for this is because what we are doing is finding an ultimate explanation, and no ultimate explanation can have an explanation. If it did, then it wouldn't be an ultimate explanation, according to the definition of the word. If one does not like this explanation, then they should be content to not have an ultimate explanation. Those who don't like the concept of an all powerful higher power should not concern themselves with the ultimate cause of all things.

Also thank you Matt for your posts. As for the question of how something can come from nothing, the truth is that "nothing" can only refer to a comparison between two somethings. If one is more than the other, then the lesser can be described as having "nothing" in a certain area. If you picture "nothing", you are always picturing something. It is probably black, and that is something. If it is another color, then it is still something. The concept of nothing is always dependent on something, so lets just acknowledge that "nothing" essentially means "less". If you take the universe, and remove all of the stars and planets, you still have space. There is less there than before. So "nothing" in this context refers to the absence of stars and planets. Saying "absolutely nothing" is actually incoherent. This might be counter-intuitive, but this is the truth.
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Re: What is the ultimate explanation for the universe?

Postby Matt on Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:15 am

Well, I agree, and that was what I was getting at.

I find your explanation a "dance" around something that was so well articulated, such a long time ago though:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
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Re: What is the ultimate explanation for the universe?

Postby Guest on Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:32 am

In explaining the Universe, we, as Man, have a finite understanding of infinite space and all things that are in it, are. First, if Man is to understand his environment, He must first understand his own origins; that is his place in the Cosmos. This is why much of the Idea of Mans place in the Universe, conceived by most of Christianity and modern day science; is flawed. We must really know where we came from; why we're here; and where we are going after mortality. We mist believe in revelation (modern day) from God. We must understand our relationship to Him. We must understand that we are literally his Spirit children; and that the Idea of the Nuclear Family is an eternal concept, conceived by God. We must understand that it is His work and his glory to bring to pass the immortality and Eternal life of Man. We must understand that Man has the potential to progress eternally. We, in our Mortal sphere, can't understand the "no beginning and no end" concept completely; as we are now in a seemingly finite state. Faith precedes the Miracle; that is Faith is the most important concept for us to learn Here. No, not "blind and Darkened Faith", but Test of a belief, by trusting in God. As in James of the New Testement says; "If any of you lack Wisdom, let him ask of God Who giveth to all men liberally; but let him ask in Faith, nothing wavering... and he that wavereth is like the waves of the sea, tossed to and fro..." He says that ?I stand at the door and knock". "Faith without works is dead; being alone". You see, God and science do mix; as God is the Author of all truth. One point. God did not create the laws of the Universe; he knows them all and operates within them, making him the Alpha and the Omega. These laws always were there. Physicality is not a creation; it is a concept. Nothing can be created from nothing. But Light, Truth and Intelligence is the Life of the Universe and makes all Laws come into righteous governance by God, our Father. He is the Light and the Life of the Universe,and all things that are in it are.
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Re: What is the ultimate explanation for the universe?

Postby technicolor on Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:35 am

Hey Matt,

I meant to say that God created the universe; ie organized it. The definition of create is to organize. Matter is eternal; without beginning or without end. No one can refute this, as there is no explanation of any thing just beginning to exist. We do operate within the realms of physicality, as we are in a mortal state. In our little world, here on Earth, we are in sort of a finite state (seemingly). If we understand the nature of Gods relationship to Man and his plan for Him; we know that man is actually an eternal being; or intelligence if you will. We are the Spiritual offspring of God; first his spirit children, then, his mortal creation, and finally, his resurrected sons and daughters. I believe that Gods plan for us is to share with us all that he has; including his ability to create. That is why there are Worlds without end; as his creations; even his children are without end. It is hard, I know; to conceive of a Father who knows even when a sparrow falls from a tree; could Love and know each of his children personally. But He does and He can. In order to have his life, we must follow his plan; even his guidelines, otherwise we are just immortal beings, living in an non progressive sphere. We choose; as we are all agents unto ourselves. This concept does not come to all of us at the same time. In Gods own time and in His own way, do we have that opportunity. God said: "As in Adam, all die; even so in Christ shall all be made alive". We will all be resurrected, but our levels of achievement will be dependent on how far we want to follow God. I believe that there has been a "Restitution of all things" as described in the New Testament. This is a politically correct website. So if you want to converse by E-mail, go to crapo007@gmail.com
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Re: What is the ultimate explanation for the universe?

Postby marco on Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:33 am

The universe and God came into being at the same time. "Then a small movement of time forward happened." That initial movement had an awareness with it "I am". There is no separation between the universe and God, they are the same thing. And there is no separation of man from the universe or God. There is constant change in the universe. God has changed with the universe and continues to change. We become aware of the universe and God through our own perception and that of our prophets. We are, as humans, one of the most concentrated forms of intelligence in the universe. God (the entire universe) has vastly more intelligence, but not concentrated, so sometimes we feel like we know more than we really do. We will discover eventually how the universe (God) actually functions. Religions have provided some insights over the centuries, and some false assumptions. Sometimes they have retracted or changed what they formerly said was true. Science and religion are seeking the same thing, what is really underlying what we percieve as reality.
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